Self Defense in TKD...

[SuperCrew]

Glad you found the error of your ways. I think you are so eager to learn that you want to learn it all at once, which for you, with your past experience may be possible, but for those that have no previous MA experience everything is taught at a good pace for them to learn and retain.

I was going to reply yesterday that our school has designated classes on Tuesday and every other Thursday just for our self defense. I love those classes, we even went out into the parking lot one night and had to go inside while the instructors "hid" and then come out and walk to our car. The instructor(s) would either be behind a car or under a car and try to slash us with a knife or hold us at gun point. On some they didn't do anything - just watched to see if you act like a "victim" on the way to your car. It was fun, I got slashed (not really - fake knife) but I still felt it and have a greater respect for knives.

[Chapel]

Originally Posted by drallig9399

If we have a dunce for the day award on this site then I should receive it.

Turns out that we do test for specific self defenses. Last night all we did was self defense. Ah well cant be right all time, but in this case I'm happy I was wrong.

I hate when that happens. You get all up in arms only to find out that your were wrong and all you can say is never mind. But this does raise an interesting question about the green belt who got attacked. Maybe the school doesn't stress the self defense enough. (Sorry for changing sides all of a sudden, but there is no way you were completely wrong

Originally Posted by jorgetkd

yes, about 5 or 10 self defenses each test, depending on the school you go at, even "dirty" sel defenses (using elbows, knees, throws, graplings, low kicks, etc), some of them may be useless, but some of them are pretty useful.

Although any one defense might be useless in a street situation the usefulness comes in learning how some individual moves flow or don't flow and what reactions they cause to different people. Honestly I have never used any specific self-defense # in a street situation, you really have to learn to make up your own.

[jorgetkd]

Originally Posted by Chapel

in a street situation, you really have to learn to make up your own.

completely agree

[Shirindo]

Originally Posted by Chapel

Although any one defense might be useless in a street situation the usefulness comes in learning how some individual moves flow or don't flow and what reactions they cause to different people. Honestly I have never used any specific self-defense # in a street situation, you really have to learn to make up your own.

That was one of my pivotable moments in my martial arts life so far, learning about the 'flow'. To be able to move and adapt your techniques, without having to stop and think about what you're doing (or worse still 'panicking') because the first technique you try doesn't work for whatever reason, is such a simple and yet frustratingly hard thing to acheive. Sorry about that last sentence, I cant seem to get the words down right. Re-read it lots and hopefully you'll understand what I'm trying to say.

-rep for being a muppet

[Chapel]

That's the first time I've seen someone -rep themselves, haha. Don't worry, I understood it.

[Zaraki Kenpachi]

Originally Posted by Shirindo

-rep for being a muppet

That was hilarious! Normally me and my friends refer to girls when we are talking about muppets though, we call them fraggles. Its meant in a good way though, there is no such thing as an ugly muppet. If anyone remembers Rachel from the Realworld/Road Rules challenges, thats a muppet.

Oh and Chapel, the green belt thing didnt happen. It was a purely subjective assessment of most of the green belts skill level. I guess I just had too much hatorade the other day.

[N.B]

I've been chatting with an instructor from the Tang Soo Do class that I've started attending. Apparently, Taekwondo to Tang Soo Do is like Judo is to Jujitsu. Taekwondo, he said, was more the sporty martial art but depending on which school you go to there is different emphasis on how much the art is self defence orientated.

I don't know to what extent that was true but one thing I did notice about the Tang Soo Do lessons compared to the Taekwondo lessons (even the ones more geared towards self defence) was that the Tang Soo Do lesson had much more of a 'real life' setting. In the Taekwondo lesson they would just teach you how to kick/punch/knee/elbow as effectively as possible while putting yourself at as little risk as possible.
Whereas Tang Soo Do they would teach you what to do if an opponent grabbed you by the wrist/attacked you with a broken bottle. How to break out of the situation and at the same time put yourself in a position where you can (if you haven't already) open up your opponent for an attack/takedown. It was very much like a Jitsu lesson a mate took me too, but without the throws. Actually, coincedentally the Tang Soo Do instructor got into martial arts by going to that same Jitsu club my Jitsu mate goes to. Small world eh?
Anyways, is he right about this? Or are there Taekwondo clubs which teach 'real life' approaches as well?

[disgruntled]

i just finished reading a book on TKD and they were saying that TKD does not traditionally have much self-defence, the one step and three step attack patterns are more traditional, but much of the self-defences taught now days (like from holds and such) are borrowed from HKD and AKD.

[Chapel]

Originally Posted by disgruntled

i just finished reading a book on TKD and they were saying that TKD does not traditionally have much self-defence, the one step and three step attack patterns are more traditional, but much of the self-defences taught now days (like from holds and such) are borrowed from HKD and AKD.

Most of TKD's traditional self defense is against TKD moves and some non-TKD strikes (like hay makers). Later the kukkiwon officially added a knife and gun pattern.

[Spinach]

Originally Posted by disgruntled

i just finished reading a book on TKD and they were saying that TKD does not traditionally have much self-defence, the one step and three step attack patterns are more traditional, but much of the self-defences taught now days (like from holds and such) are borrowed from HKD and AKD.

Which HKD and AKD borrowed from someone else...

There is a TKD school in my area run by a Korean, they don't include any of the sports syllabus in their teachings. No sports kicks and the like. From what I have seen of them they are pretty solid. They focus on lower kicks, punch more and spend alot of time on tactics and really developing their basics to be very strong. I guess they are trying to develop a students own rythem with this method.

All the other schools I have seen in my area are a joke. Y'know, using a triple spinning turnover thunder kick to disable a knife wielding attacker kinda thing. I have seen some crazy things in TKD self defence seminars. They were pants.

[Zaraki Kenpachi]

I dont get the reference to pants.

[Chapel]

Originally Posted by Spinach

All the other schools I have seen in my area are a joke. Y'know, using a triple spinning turnover thunder kick to disable a knife wielding attacker kinda thing. I have seen some crazy things in TKD self defence seminars. They were pants.

These kicks should only be used to break boards at shows or as exercises in control and balance. Honestly, once you are able to control your body to such a level, how hard is it to do a quick and accurate front kick? They are not specifically useful in self defense anymore than gymnastics is useful in self defense.

Originally Posted by drallig9399

I dont get the reference to pants.

Glad I'm not the only one. Must be some Australian thing.

[Zaraki Kenpachi]

It seems like to do such an advanced kick would just be pouring salt on their wound. Like saying, " you are so beneath my skill that I can do whatever I want to you"

I cant say that I wouldnt pull it out if the occassion ever came up. I remember one time when I was a kid that I kicked a guy with a roundhouse to his ribs, all it did was piss him off. I could have just as easily done a jump spin kick to his head and knocked him out.

It may not be practical but if you can do it and land it then who's to say dont do it.

[Chapel]

I would say that 9/10 times jumping is a bad idea, especially if it is at the beginning of a fight. Above and beyond that, any kick with more than 1 full spin in it is simply wasted motion and energy. But some of those jump spins are damn near lethal if they connect solidly.

[nom]

In our TDK school sparring was/is for green belt and above. I was chomping at the bit to spar but had to wait. Now that I am here, I can understand why. We spar every class with everybody. I could be facing another green belt or a 3rd degree black belt. We spar for about 2 mins per, then move down the line, facing another apponent.

At green belt, I have become a bit more flexible, a bit more stronger, and have a few moves under my belt. A white or yellow has not praticed any advanced kicks at this point. I don't know if you guys can remember back to your first white belt, but trying to remember stances, blocks, kicks, your form, your one steps, etc etc was daunting enough.

I imagine that at our school that they keep to the "seed", "sun", "earth" .. etc etc. Progression seems to be the key here.

Case in point, we had board breaking last night (my first). I wanted to perform a round kick and was not allowed to, for fear of shattering my toes on the wood. For fun, I moved over to the heavy bag and laid into it with a hummer of a round kick ... and my toes were not curled enough. Had I kicked that board I am pretty darn sure I would have broken something.

I will trust my instructors. As I have said before, I think they know more than me.