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QUOTE:
"Tae Kwon Do made it's debut outside of Korea in the mid-1960's when it's effectiveness in actual hand-to-hand combat was proven and made famous on the battle grounds of Vietnam. Tae Kwon do
popularity has grown rapidly, and is now the most practiced martial art in the world...."
What....???? TKD hand to hand was proven Vietnam?/// I'm going to have to inquire about that, having a few relatives from that conflict...
__________________ What do I know? Since I didn't post my styles or experience, I have no experience, no knowledge, no say.
That post before mine, was that for post counting? How about the one after?
Hey, my post count has the same palaverment tone as anyone elses'
You still didn't answer my question. If your argument for TKD's effectiveness is it not being used by all other military, I want to know which one art is out there that is considered effective so all military uses it.
I gave you the answer:
I dont think military forces are looking for a "indentifiable/bonefide art" as much as they desire a compendious curriculum of combat.
__________________ What do I know? Since I didn't post my styles or experience, I have no experience, no knowledge, no say.
That post before mine, was that for post counting? How about the one after?
Hey, my post count has the same palaverment tone as anyone elses'
5.) As I have been observing many decades, it would seem, many Korean Masters of TKD, seem to dislodge themselves from the name, going forth and creating a new name for their art/schools.
I don't think Korean Masters of TKD wanting to dislodge themselves from the name has anything to do with "ineffectiveness of TKD" but rather business motivated. You'll notice that most of these new styles/arts are dominant in US where there are no governing body for martial arts and anybody can create their own style with no approval/certification from anybody.
- Yes, TKD is taught in the S Korean military. You are 'required' to be or become a black belt during the period of mandatory military service at least.
- Most folks I know who completed military service in Korea (LOTS of them) say the TKD they were taught was perfunctory and a means of morale building and exercise.
- Many Vietnamese were afraid of the Koreans BEFORE the war. The myth of the madmen from the north and all that. Of course there are some tough SOBs who serve/served in the Korean military, and it only takes a few stories of some crazy-ass dude who 'sort of' looks like you but is twice as big, carving someone's heart out in hand to hand to get the myth going into overdrive, which has really not so much to do with TKD itself.
- Modern warfare is based on hand to hand fighting to a very, very small extent, and who really cares if the 'whatever' taught is the superbad or not? Most fighting won't be hand to hand, most folks won't be trained anywhere near long enough to 'master' some complete system of this or that, and if you can pracitce TKD instead of takng another few laps around the base and get the ol' national pride and fighting spirit going, why the hell not?
Styles: Ninjutsu, Tae Kwon Do, Modern Army Combatives
Posts: 1,252
Home Country:
man......havent we been through this before? lol.
the US army an the Korean Army work hand in hand together
alot of American Army units......especially combat infantry units are trained in Taekwondo
some military or law enforcement places around the world are taught TKD it depends on what arts are available.
for example if your stationed on the air force base in Okinawa...u can learn tai chi....which some of thier MP units practice.
the Taekwondo that the Korean Army, Marines, and Navy does is the same Taekwondo done anywhere else because its taught by Instructors who are Licensed by the Taekwondo Kukkiwon Headquarters.
as far as effectiveness....this is not a BS exaggeration people can take it however but...1 female from the Korean special forces who is trained in Taekwondo .....or Tukong Musul...which is a variant of TKD
can take out 3-4 men in a few seconds.
typically a Korean Soldier or Marine who is a Beginner Belt in TKD can take out an American soldier who is a Level 2 in Army combatives......unless that American soldier has prior experience an hand to hand training to give him an edge
not just because of thier martial training...but because of higher standards of physical fitness and discipline.
__________________
“You could do this same technique with a knife. Just keep it hidden. Don’t go swinging it around. We’re not yakuza here.”
“Don’t make the other person your opponent. If you do that, you lose your awareness to other people. Taijutsu is not just one on one.”
Here is the issue. Most schools, at least in America, from my understanding focus mainly on the sport of TKD, which is rather ineffective in real combat. High kicks are easily caught, and since catching is against the rules in sport TKD, the combatants are not used to facing that sort of problem.
Kicks are emphasized above all else, it makes Taekwondo stand out, and of course, the kicks are aimed high because in sport TKD, WTF, which my school is, a head kick is two points. Hand techniques are discouraged in WTF sparring, I can't really speak for ITF's rules since I have never trained in ITF. However, many practitioners that I know are very weak with their hands, defensively, if not both defensively and offensively. They don't get any practice against take downs. The only real hand work they get is in forward and back stance workouts. Most of the punch counters that we have learned are weak at best. This is WTF, mind you.
That said, one can take what TKD teaches and tweak it to make it effective. Kicks should be aimed at the legs, low, or if the opportunity presents itself, then the head is a viable target. Hands need to be worked, defense needs to be solid. Takedowns and counter takedowns should be learned. With proper teaching and proper training, TKD can be very effective, but only if taught in a manner designed to make the techniques effective.
I have had 2 and a half years of training in TKD thus far. I'm leaving it soon because I am tired of the sport aspect.
as far as effectiveness....this is not a BS exaggeration people can take it however but...1 female from the Korean special forces who is trained in Taekwondo .....or Tukong Musul...which is a variant of TKD
can take out 3-4 men in a few seconds. .
I'm sure she can, depending on who those men are.
I'm sure she absolutely cannot, depending on who those men are.
Which is one reason why such statements are just silly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinobi_Kokujin
typically a Korean Soldier or Marine who is a Beginner Belt in TKD can take out an American soldier who is a Level 2 in Army combatives......unless that American soldier has prior experience an hand to hand training to give him an edge
not just because of thier martial training...but because of higher standards of physical fitness and discipline.
Now that is just nonsense, and cannot be supported.
Styles: Ninjutsu, Tae Kwon Do, Modern Army Combatives
Posts: 1,252
Home Country:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unkotare
I'm sure she can, depending on who those men are.
I'm sure she absolutely cannot, depending on who those men are.
Which is one reason why such statements are just silly.
Now that is just nonsense, and cannot be supported.
my point on the Female Spec Forces people is that they do TKD or tukong musul an its effective. the're training is very intensified an rough.
so i guess some of those soldiers i used to see in Korea walking around with "tap out" clothing an combatives t-shirts acting tough an starting trouble then getting thier azzez beat by Koreans was nonsense......oh well
whats nonsense is saying that some military branches dont do the same Kukkiwon or ITF TKD as thier civilian counterparts
__________________
“You could do this same technique with a knife. Just keep it hidden. Don’t go swinging it around. We’re not yakuza here.”
“Don’t make the other person your opponent. If you do that, you lose your awareness to other people. Taijutsu is not just one on one.”
Styles: Ninjutsu, Tae Kwon Do, Modern Army Combatives
Posts: 1,252
Home Country:
i forgot to mention too.....that Korean soldiers train more often than American soldiers in combat arts
the only American units who train often are Infantry an even thier hand to hand training training is not as much as Korean military or the US marines
the US Marines i would say has the best program. USArmy.....on the other hand.....spends more time doing jumping jacks an running than hand to hand combat training.
an when we do have combatives training its been so long since the last class that we have to do the level one drills all over again stuff like that is what can make a soldier
complacent an lacking in H2H combat skills unless said soldier has a training partner....or joins a combatives team during off-duty hours or trains in martial arts
__________________
“You could do this same technique with a knife. Just keep it hidden. Don’t go swinging it around. We’re not yakuza here.”
“Don’t make the other person your opponent. If you do that, you lose your awareness to other people. Taijutsu is not just one on one.”
- Yes, TKD is taught in the S Korean military. You are 'required' to be or become a black belt during the period of mandatory military service at least.
- Most folks I know who completed military service in Korea (LOTS of them) say the TKD they were taught was perfunctory and a means of morale building and exercise.
.
- Modern warfare is based on hand to hand fighting to a very, very small extent, and who really cares if the 'whatever' taught is the superbad or not? Most fighting won't be hand to hand, most folks won't be trained anywhere near long enough to 'master' some complete system of this or that, and if you can pracitce TKD instead of takng another few laps around the base and get the ol' national pride and fighting spirit going, why the hell not?
EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO STATE!
__________________ What do I know? Since I didn't post my styles or experience, I have no experience, no knowledge, no say.
That post before mine, was that for post counting? How about the one after?
Hey, my post count has the same palaverment tone as anyone elses'
"What....???? TKD hand to hand was proven Vietnam?/// I'm going to have to inquire about that, having a few relatives from that conflict..."
"The efficacy of Taekwondo proved itself during the Vietnam War in battlefields by the Koreans soldiers. The Taekwondo techniques used in the military then were distinctly different from what we know as Taekwondo today. The life or death circumstances in the battlefield honed the techniques. The Guinness Book of Records in the 1970s, defined Taekwondo as Korean Karate used for killing in Vietnam. As the war escalated, the number of instructors sent to Vietnam increased. By 1973, 647 Taekwondo instructors had been sent to Vietnam. The strength of Taekwondo training in Korean soldiers had a negative psychological affect on the Vietcong.
Through Taekwondo training, Korean soldiers had developed excellent physical conditioning, a strong mentality, and superior combat techniques; The leaders of the Vietcong advised their troops to retreat, rather than fight, if they came into contact with Korean soldiers.
Ironically, Taekwondo experienced great growth because of the war. Many foreign soldiers who learned Taekwondo in Vietnam; later invited their instructors to visit them in their native country. Through Vietnam, many instructors gained the opportunity to teach Taekwondo throughout the world."
__________________
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena,his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt
"Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "I will try again tomorrow."-Theodore Roosevelt
[quote=Shinobi_Kokujin;58887] man......havent we been through this before? lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinobi_Kokujin
the US army an the Korean Army work hand in hand together
alot of American Army units......especially combat infantry units are trained in Taekwondo
What, where did you get this? Though th US abd Korean armed forces work together, each have their own idea of combat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinobi_Kokujin
some military or law enforcement places around the world are taught TKD it depends on what arts are available.
Like any military, the issue is not to take a art, rather to study better, efficient methods, genrally a mixed type.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinobi_Kokujin
for example if your stationed on the air force base in Okinawa...u can learn tai chi....which some of thier MP units practice.
Okinawa Tai Chi?....Man are you off the cultural scale. A miltary stationed on Okinawa is more likely to study a Karate sysytem......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinobi_Kokujin
the Taekwondo that the Korean Army, Marines, and Navy does is the same Taekwondo done anywhere else because its taught by Instructors who are Licensed by the Taekwondo Kukkiwon Headquarters.
Where do you get this info?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinobi_Kokujin
as far as effectiveness....this is not a BS exaggeration people can take it however but...1 female from the Korean special forces who is trained in Taekwondo .....or Tukong Musul...which is a variant of TKD can take out 3-4 men in a few seconds.
When are you people with such callow thoughts are going to realizethat it isnt the art, but the person. And, you have confirmed my point my saying Tukong Musul (spl), a "VARIANT" of TKD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinobi_Kokujin
typically a Korean Soldier or Marine who is a Beginner Belt in TKD can take out an American soldier who is a Level 2 in Army combatives......unless that American soldier has prior experience an hand to hand training to give him an edge not just because of thier martial training...but because of higher standards of physical fitness and discipline.
Where do you get your stats/info?
__________________ What do I know? Since I didn't post my styles or experience, I have no experience, no knowledge, no say.
That post before mine, was that for post counting? How about the one after?
Hey, my post count has the same palaverment tone as anyone elses'
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