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Luckily, my school is a lot more serious than this school appears to be...
Now, this all depends on what type of school you're going to, doesn't it? My school teaches all aspects of TaeKwonDo (Except for Trad. Hanja writing and understanding), so you can't say schools only teach some aspects of TKD.
What I believe makes a good TKD school is:
They teach all/most aspects of TKD (Meditation, Self Defense, Poomsae etc.)
The teacher(s) is/are trained & certified by KukkiWon
The teacher must be good at the art (Well known around the province/country)
The teachers must be strict, and make the practitioners respect the art and its history.
The students must pass some tests before they are allowed to join the school, and only the ones who pass all the tests are allowed to join the club. (e.g. Fitness test and strength test - etc)
The school teaches ONLY ONE ART (Even though HapKiDo and TKD go hand in hand, they should not be practiced as a combination)
---- I'll add more later, I gotta go to class
I think this going a bit to far for the average person off the street. I'm sure all that is good stuff but, myself and 99% of non TKD practioners don't know what a KukkiWon is, but it sounds delicious . You should be able to walk into a school and off the bat know if it's a good place to train just by watching the training methods of the other students. Also I don't think requiring meditation is a smart idea for any art, I know that it's not a religious thing but, most people don't take a MA for the meditation. You have to realize you're a fanatic about your MA most people aren't. If you focus your school towards the fanatics you'll produce a good product but, only have two or three students at most and make no money. The converse of that is a black belt factory which no one wants either so you have to find a balance.
__________________
I'm a shark, the ground game is my ocean. And most people don't know how to swim. Oh yeah and I can knock you out too
Everything I know in life, I learned from watching the Fall Guy.
Forrest Griffin is a thief, plain and simple.
Last edited by TRIANGLEFROMGAURD; 04-16-2008 at 08:38 AM.
Reason: ttt
Well in wrestling and boxing you cant hit the groin....
You missed my point.
Once a combat sport adopts a set of rules for competition, most quality schools are going to concentrate on that set of rules for training. Competition is what drives most arts, not self defense because if you're a Karate guy and you want to test yourself the best way to do this would be to compete in a Karate tournament. And the only smart way to train for a competition is to train within the rule set.
And TKD is one of the most restrictive rule sets of any Martial Arts competition as to where and how you can strike.
__________________ Whats so bad about a criminal teaching martial arts?
- Energizerbunny63
Do they still have the rule that no points can be scored on the back? And I like that even though this is a thread on TKD we still end up talking about boxing and wrestling .................................haters
__________________
I'm a shark, the ground game is my ocean. And most people don't know how to swim. Oh yeah and I can knock you out too
Everything I know in life, I learned from watching the Fall Guy.
I'm going to be blatantly honest right now. TKD while in my opinion is a good art and, some of the guys I've seen from Korea are pretty bad a**. Most of the American TKD I've seen is pretty much hot garbage. It's not that the art is bad but, TKD schools in America have really found their niche and that is soccer moms. Soccer moms will spend loads of money on their kids and TKD in America focuses on that demographic. Thats why when you walk into a TKD school you're likely to see a 14 or 15 year old black belt doing wheel kicks. That is very impressive to a mother of another teen but, to most other martial artists we're not that impressed. Also in the fight community we don't think very highly of TKD simply because they mainly do point sparring.
I remember an early fight of mine, it was at a bar in NWI called Finkies they use to do NHB iron man competitions with the winner taking home something like $1000, my first fight was against a TKD black belt, I remember being nervous because it was the first time I fought a black belt under MMA rules. He landed a really good round house to my mid section but, did nothing afterward I was like ok good night then and dropped him with a left cross. The thing is if he would have trained to be a fighter I'm not saying he would of beat me, because I'm really awesome , but it would have been a longer fight for sure.
The point that I've always stated is that it's not so much what you train, and I really believe that to be true people, it's how you train. So before you TKD people start throwing flying cresent kicks my way. Realize I said most American TKD not all. You me be a total bad a** I don't know.
Why must the teacher be strict? This isnt the military. They should act no different than a sport coach. They are not your master, even though they may be a master of the art. I dont even understand why they would want to be referred to as such.
Maybe that stuff is good for kids, but when you are 30 years old, and hold a degree such as a doctor, you shouldnt need to call a 14 year old sir, or Mr. and bow to them. One of the first things I learned at medical school is that its much better to get on a first name basis with patients as they will respect and trust you more.
What does strict have to do with respect and learning? If you can find me anything in the education or ed psychology literature that agrees with that then I would support it. But I can promise you that it says the opposite (I hold an advanced degree in education a s well).
well i know that most tkd schools in america arnt strict at all, and have very low disciplinary standards, and well the people in those scholls cannot fight?(not saying this is the reason why just throwing around questions, and ideas and such)
schools in America are not strict at all, and there is no respect in schools in America. and just so happens America has one of the worst education standards int he world! and is considered obe of the dumbest!(not saying anything no one get mad,just throwing around ideas)
maybe hard discipline isnt so useless?
can discipline,or military like leadership, improve the learning envirement for people?
my TKD instructor was very strict, and out TKD school was military like, and he would hit us for not bowing right, and all that messed up abussive stuff that we all hated him for. but i notice that evryone in our school could fight(for real), and id say our yellow belt over there is about the equivalent of a black belt here. just saying maybe hard discipline could help, although it may lower sells, it may help?
well i know that most tkd schools in america arnt strict at all, and have very low disciplinary standards, and well the people in those scholls cannot fight?(not saying this is the reason why just throwing around questions, and ideas and such)
schools in America are not strict at all, and there is no respect in schools in America. and just so happens America has one of the worst education standards int he world! and is considered obe of the dumbest!(not saying anything no one get mad,just throwing around ideas)
maybe hard discipline isnt so useless?
can discipline,or military like leadership, improve the learning envirement for people?
my TKD instructor was very strict, and out TKD school was military like, and he would hit us for not bowing right, and all that messed up abussive stuff that we all hated him for. but i notice that evryone in our school could fight(for real), and id say our yellow belt over there is about the equivalent of a black belt here. just saying maybe hard discipline could help, although it may lower sells, it may help?
Can you point me to any research that says the US has the worst education standards? I know that there arent any. Researchers dont even do studies like that. I coulnt even imaging setting up a research study like that...and I do a lot of research read a lot of it.
Being strict for the kids classes may be good for them. But for the adult classes? Come on. And I do agree, schools in america are not that strict and should be more but the US school system is much better than other countries. Besides that argument though, as someone who knows about teaching and research on teaching, there is a big difference in teaching adults and kids. My bjj school is not strict. It is more like a sport. We respect the coach, sometimes call him by his name, coach, sir, but its up to us. Respect is good and great. I just think it may be overboard a bit for the adult classes thats all.
There are differences between adults and children but TKD does not seem to want to recognize them. That is why 14-16 year old have black belts. In bjj, you cant even earn a blue belt (which is the lowest besides white), until you are 16 and then you have many years till black. Seeing a black belt under 20 years old would be amazing and be an elite athlete. Im not trying to compare the two, but its just a good example.
Can you point me to any research that says the US has the worst education standards? I know that there arent any. Researchers dont even do studies like that. I coulnt even imaging setting up a research study like that...and I do a lot of research read a lot of it.
Being strict for the kids classes may be good for them. But for the adult classes? Come on. And I do agree, schools in america are not that strict and should be more but the US school system is much better than other countries. Besides that argument though, as someone who knows about teaching and research on teaching, there is a big difference in teaching adults and kids. My bjj school is not strict. It is more like a sport. We respect the coach, sometimes call him by his name, coach, sir, but its up to us. Respect is good and great. I just think it may be overboard a bit for the adult classes thats all.
There are differences between adults and children but TKD does not seem to want to recognize them. That is why 14-16 year old have black belts. In bjj, you cant even earn a blue belt (which is the lowest besides white), until you are 16 and then you have many years till black. Seeing a black belt under 20 years old would be amazing and be an elite athlete. Im not trying to compare the two, but its just a good example.
maybe worst in the world was a overexxagerated. but compared to other 1st world countries like finland, belguim, australia, korea, japan, hungary , germany, and the united kingdom, the U.S. education system, and sucess was ranked last and quickly declining according to a study done by. the UNICEF
but i get what your saying.
Last edited by XDEATHGOD; 04-16-2008 at 06:40 PM.
Reason: accidentally hit post before i was odne
Do they still have the rule that no points can be scored on the back?
Yes, they still have that rule. Even after many competitions adopted 'continuous kick boxing' rules to a void the point-stop-point-stop flow of competitions. (Incidentally it is the point-stop method which allowed you to beat your first TKD opponent so easily.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRIANGLEFROMGAURD
I think this going a bit to far for the average person off the street. I'm sure all that is good stuff but, myself and 99% of non TKD practioners don't know what a KukkiWon is, but it sounds delicious . You should be able to walk into a school and off the bat know if it's a good place to train just by watching the training methods of the other students. Also I don't think requiring meditation is a smart idea for any art, I know that it's not a religious thing but, most people don't take a MA for the meditation. You have to realize you're a fanatic about your MA most people aren't. If you focus your school towards the fanatics you'll produce a good product but, only have two or three students at most and make no money. The converse of that is a black belt factory which no one wants either so you have to find a balance.
I would agree with you for two big reasons.
First, certification at the Kukkiwon (which is basically TKD HQ) is excellent for many schools to have as it shows it hasn't gotten too far away from its roots. However, it would be useless if someone was running an ATA school or the like.
Second, the well known aspect is just vague and unimportant. Lots of people know me in my community, but that is because I work as a substitute teacher and so come in contact with 90% of the children in the school district. Very few know me as a martial artist. That being said, I would like to think that despite the relative obscurity of my school we still teach decent martial arts. (Soccer moms or no soccer moms.)
However, I disagree about the meditation. The aspect of mind body control and concentration is huge in Tae Kwon Do philosophy, especially for children. (Also it impresses soccer moms when I get their little kid to sit quietly for 5 minutes. ) Beyond that, visualization drills are quite useful to help someone improve their technique and coordination. Although, I will grant that nothing replaces doing entirely, being able to see is the first step to doing. This, incidentally, is why there is very little 'new' stuff after black belt in Tae Kwon Do. Anything new you give to a student at that point gets done, mastered and boring within 15 minutes... then they look for something newer.
I'm going to be blatantly honest right now. TKD while in my opinion is a good art and, some of the guys I've seen from Korea are pretty bad a**. Most of the American TKD I've seen is pretty much hot garbage. It's not that the art is bad but, TKD schools in America have really found their niche and that is soccer moms. Soccer moms will spend loads of money on their kids and TKD in America focuses on that demographic. Thats why when you walk into a TKD school you're likely to see a 14 or 15 year old black belt doing wheel kicks. That is very impressive to a mother of another teen but, to most other martial artists we're not that impressed. Also in the fight community we don't think very highly of TKD simply because they mainly do point sparring.
I remember an early fight of mine, it was at a bar in NWI called Finkies they use to do NHB iron man competitions with the winner taking home something like $1000, my first fight was against a TKD black belt, I remember being nervous because it was the first time I fought a black belt under MMA rules. He landed a really good round house to my mid section but, did nothing afterward I was like ok good night then and dropped him with a left cross. The thing is if he would have trained to be a fighter I'm not saying he would of beat me, because I'm really awesome , but it would have been a longer fight for sure.
The point that I've always stated is that it's not so much what you train, and I really believe that to be true people, it's how you train. So before you TKD people start throwing flying cresent kicks my way. Realize I said most American TKD not all. You me be a total bad a** I don't know.
Cheers and goodluck training.
I agree to a degree and approve this post....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joemoplata
You missed my point.
Once a combat sport adopts a set of rules for competition, most quality schools are going to concentrate on that set of rules for training. Competition is what drives most arts, not self defense because if you're a Karate guy and you want to test yourself the best way to do this would be to compete in a Karate tournament. And the only smart way to train for a competition is to train within the rule set.
And TKD is one of the most restrictive rule sets of any Martial Arts competition as to where and how you can strike.
Well, you missed my point. Though the above actually supports it.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRIANGLEFROMGAURD
Do they still have the rule that no points can be scored on the back? And I like that even though this is a thread on TKD we still end up talking about boxing and wrestling .................................haters
Well, we were talking about set rules in competition, and since there are rules, each have its own.
So whats the point of dicussing the rules of TKD, when others have their own set as well.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by john55
Can you point me to any research that says the US has the worst education standards? I know that there arent any. Researchers dont even do studies like that. I coulnt even imaging setting up a research study like that...and I do a lot of research read a lot of it.
Being strict for the kids classes may be good for them. But for the adult classes? Come on. And I do agree, schools in america are not that strict and should be more but the US school system is much better than other countries. Besides that argument though, as someone who knows about teaching and research on teaching, there is a big difference in teaching adults and kids. My bjj school is not strict. It is more like a sport. We respect the coach, sometimes call him by his name, coach, sir, but its up to us. Respect is good and great. I just think it may be overboard a bit for the adult classes thats all.
There are differences between adults and children but TKD does not seem to want to recognize them. That is why 14-16 year old have black belts. In bjj, you cant even earn a blue belt (which is the lowest besides white), until you are 16 and then you have many years till black. Seeing a black belt under 20 years old would be amazing and be an elite athlete. Im not trying to compare the two, but its just a good example.
I approve this message....
__________________ What do I know? Since I didn't post my styles or experience, I have no experience, no knowledge, no say.
That post before mine, was that for post counting? How about the one after?
Hey, my post count has the same palaverment tone as anyone elses'
I think this going a bit to far for the average person off the street. I'm sure all that is good stuff but, myself and 99% of non TKD practioners don't know what a KukkiWon is, but it sounds delicious . You should be able to walk into a school and off the bat know if it's a good place to train just by watching the training methods of the other students. Also I don't think requiring meditation is a smart idea for any art, I know that it's not a religious thing but, most people don't take a MA for the meditation. You have to realize you're a fanatic about your MA most people aren't. If you focus your school towards the fanatics you'll produce a good product but, only have two or three students at most and make no money. The converse of that is a black belt factory which no one wants either so you have to find a balance.
Well, you missed my point. Though the above actually supports it.....
47MM,
You seem to be of the mind set that all Martial Arts programs should only focus on true self defense, as in lethal or crippling in it's intent. Any sport application is worthless and takes away from the realism. Yet I have shown numerous times where people trained in a given SPORT (BJJ, MMA, Thai Boxing, Wrestling) dominate Traditional Martial Artists in no rules fights. I mean, NO RULES. I have posted at least two videos on here of challenge matches by Kung Fu guys who claimed that with NO RULES they could win against MMA guys. Not one time, let me be very clear on this:
NOT ONE TIME DID THE TMA GUY WIN.
So to say that sport training for a given art has no vailidity for self defense has already been shown to be an invalid statement.
My point was simply that TKD has TOO MANY rules for sport competition, it's not practical for a striking art to only allow punching to the body and stil realize it's self defense capabilities.
__________________ Whats so bad about a criminal teaching martial arts?
- Energizerbunny63
In Denial
