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My point was simply that TKD has TOO MANY rules for sport competition, it's not practical for a striking art to only allow punching to the body and stil realize it's self defense capabilities.
It is worse than having too many rules, the rules are too irregularly enforced which leads to all sorts of strange (and usually negative) behaviors in TKDists.
Two of the biggest of these negatives are:
The destruction of the turning/roundhouse kick
The removal of blocks
Simply put, kicking with the instep is a bad idea. (Here is where breaking a board is a useful demonstration as you will severely injure you foot if you try to break with the instep.) Taking a shot with the side of your body and/or blocking it in a way that any normal person could withstand all day is often awarded a point in sparring. These encourage behaviors which are harmful to self-defense and combat.
And that is even granting the recent addition of continuous sparring rules to some competitions...
Yeah, I will be the first one to stand up and say that sport TKD is NOT traditional Tae Kwon Do. (Which is why I don't agree with the TMA label, certainly BJJ has a non-sport/traditional aspect to it also.) A properly trained TKDist should at least stand a chance in a no rule situation.
You seem to be of the mind set that all Martial Arts programs should only focus on true self defense, as in lethal or crippling in it's intent. Any sport application is worthless and takes away from the realism. Yet I have shown numerous times where people trained in a given SPORT (BJJ, MMA, Thai Boxing, Wrestling) dominate Traditional Martial Artists in no rules fights. I mean, NO RULES. I have posted at least two videos on here of challenge matches by Kung Fu guys who claimed that with NO RULES they could win against MMA guys. Not one time, let me be very clear on this:
NOT ONE TIME DID THE TMA GUY WIN.
So to say that sport training for a given art has no vailidity for self defense has already been shown to be an invalid statement.
My point was simply that TKD has TOO MANY rules for sport competition, it's not practical for a striking art to only allow punching to the body and stil realize it's self defense capabilities.
Thats not my "mindset" at all.
Rules are set for safety and fairness.
So what if some is not allowed to punch to the face. This in liking that no one is allowed to strike the groin.
The creation/application of rules in given events, are to set a standard PER such event to minimize injury.
That said, since most who train in TKD, use kicking, and the art in sport form, is known primarily as a kicking art, it would seem to be quite clear, that punches to the face be ruled.
But a twist to this rule thinking, is that some people in such kicking arts, believe that the kick/legs are the most powerful and lethal. If this is the case, why allow kicking to the head?
The thing that ANY art or its practitioners have to realise, is that it also has to adapt outside of "rules"
TMAsts have to understand, that their own art was created to be the better out of combination for their particular era, at time of introduction. in other words, their own art was created from other arts and at the time of their creation, back then were new and not "traditional" itself.
To me, there is no such art as a "Tradition Martial Arts", as martial arts were created for such improved fighting, per their era.
Traditional Martial Artists, should come out of thinking that a "Traditional Martial Art" holds a higher level. In other words, just because something is old, doesnt make it better.
__________________ What do I know? Since I didn't post my styles or experience, I have no experience, no knowledge, no say.
That post before mine, was that for post counting? How about the one after?
Hey, my post count has the same palaverment tone as anyone elses'
I like all of that except for the sound effects he makes while doing the forms. I have no idea why, by that always grates on my mind. Let you uniform snaps be heard if you are really doing correct moves, don't cover it up with some kind of beat box-like sounds.
It "looks" nice but I promise you there is NO power in any of his strikes. And the "sounds effects" is actually (supposed to be) breath control and plays a big part in TKD (well in ITF anyway). His moves is more KARATE than Taekwondo.
ITF has full sign-wave to generate power, is self-defence focussed, and you learn one blow is enough to finish the fight!
Styles: Western Boxing, Tai Chi, Animal Form Kung Fu, and Wing Chun
Posts: 1,933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendrik1
1)
ITF has full sign-wave to generate power, is self-defence focussed, and you learn one blow is enough to finish the fight!
Hogwash! Rarely will one blow finish a fight. That is a falisy I have heard time and again from point fighters who train for tournaments instead of self-defense. While you might finish a fight with one blow, training as if it will is silly, in my opnion. It trains one not to follow up or control an opponent you have hit, giving that opponent the time needed to recover position and fight back.
1) PLEASE remember there is LOTS of different Taekwondo styles:
- ITF (Internation Taekwondo Federation)
- WTF (World Taekwondo Federation)
- GTF (Global Taekwondo Federation)
There is some similarities but LOTS of differences between the styles. WTF is more sparring focussed, ITF more self-defence and forms.
This must be GTF - ITF and WTF has white doboks.
It "looks" nice but I promise you there is NO power in any of his strikes. And the "sounds effects" is actually (supposed to be) breath control and plays a big part in TKD (well in ITF anyway). His moves is more KARATE than Taekwondo.
ITF has full sign-wave to generate power, is self-defence focussed, and you learn one blow is enough to finish the fight!
I dont think there are "lots of TKD styles". What had happened, was other orgs had sprouted from one main one in order to become separate/unique. Therefore, changing certain hings to demonstrate a difference.
Iv'e been to most orgs, and they all have sparring, forms, amd self defense.
And it will be hap-hazard to think one could learn to finish a fight with one blow.
__________________ What do I know? Since I didn't post my styles or experience, I have no experience, no knowledge, no say.
That post before mine, was that for post counting? How about the one after?
Hey, my post count has the same palaverment tone as anyone elses'
It "looks" nice but I promise you there is NO power in any of his strikes. And the "sounds effects" is actually (supposed to be) breath control and plays a big part in TKD (well in ITF anyway). His moves is more KARATE than Taekwondo.
ITF has full sign-wave to generate power, is self-defence focussed, and you learn one blow is enough to finish the fight!
The sound effects are not breath control, they are showboating. No matter what organization (not style) of Tae Kwon Do you are involved in, at a competition people always do this during forms.
Just so you know for the future. The mathematical function 'sign' is actually spelled 'sine.' Maybe it is just my math getting in the way, but I do not think that anything in Tae Kwon Do resembles a sine wave in execution. Additionally I am not sure how resembling a sine wave would generate more power.
The sound effects are not breath control, they are showboating. No matter what organization (not style) of Tae Kwon Do you are involved in, at a competition people always do this during forms.
Just so you know for the future. The mathematical function 'sign' is actually spelled 'sine.' Maybe it is just my math getting in the way, but I do not think that anything in Tae Kwon Do resembles a sine wave in execution. Additionally I am not sure how resembling a sine wave would generate more power.
Styles: Western Boxing, Tai Chi, Animal Form Kung Fu, and Wing Chun
Posts: 1,933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 47MartialMan
Maybe he's thinking of sound wave like Ken Ryu?
Sounds more like he's repeating what he heard from an instructor...a bad instructor. At the risk of sounding like some of our MMA friends, its BS. One blow...sine wave...
Sounds more like he's repeating what he heard from an instructor...a bad instructor. At the risk of sounding like some of our MMA friends, its BS. One blow...sine wave...
No, sign wave blows are when you pull one with its post out of the ground and hit someone with it.
__________________ What do I know? Since I didn't post my styles or experience, I have no experience, no knowledge, no say.
That post before mine, was that for post counting? How about the one after?
Hey, my post count has the same palaverment tone as anyone elses'
WOW - I didn't think I'd get this amount of (negative) response.
Lets try to answer this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by WC_Lun
Rarely will one blow finish a fight. That is a falisy I have heard time and again from point fighters who train for tournaments instead of self-defense. While you might finish a fight with one blow, training as if it will is silly, in my opnion. It trains one not to follow up or control an opponent you have hit, giving that opponent the time needed to recover position and fight back.
Firstly - its meant to learn you to give 100%... putting 50% effort into a punch or kick is no good... Agree?
Secondly - from a self defense point of view - if you're attacked in the street, and you counter with a proper side kick to the knee (which you learn to do proper with 100%) - the fight is over. Or will your attacker continue to fight with a broken knee?
Which mindset would you learn your student? To attack and counter for 30minutes or to go full out to finish the fight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapel
The sound effects are not breath control, they are showboating. No matter what organization (not style) of Tae Kwon Do you are involved in, at a competition people always do this during forms.
LOL! Ok if you say (think) so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapel
Just so you know for the future. The mathematical function 'sign' is actually spelled 'sine.' Maybe it is just my math getting in the way, but I do not think that anything in Tae Kwon Do resembles a sine wave in execution. Additionally I am not sure how resembling a sine wave would generate more power.
My bad - yes it's spelled sine. If you think about it, using your knee as a "spring" to put your whole body weight into a punch is going to be more powerful than just throwing a punch?
Quote:
Originally Posted by WC_Lun
Sounds more like he's repeating what he heard from an instructor...a bad instructor. At the risk of sounding like some of our MMA friends, its BS. One blow...sine wave...
Very mature comments.
Not one of you asked what is meant by breath control. Not one of you asked what is sine wave. ?? Easier just to shoot off with negative comments?
Sorry I come from a completely different background of learning... Why not have a look on youtube for ITF Taekwondo and see what it's about before making negative comments about something you know nothing about?
In Denial
Easier just to shoot off with negative comments?
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