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Basically the jist of my post was that kicks to the head are rarer in competitions because they are slower. So, keeping your hands down by your sides actually can inadvertently block a whole bunch of shots which would have scored points. So keeping your hands down is rewarded by the rules of competition.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinobi_Kokujin
ive never seen a person who does TKD or MT or Kickboxing.....get into a street fight an not have hands up in some manner. at least in the circles i train with.
thats like common sense to have your hands up. or at least put up some kind of defense after taking some shots to the face that dont knock you out. if that
doesnt work then thats on them. the hands up thing gets nit picked alot. just cause you got your hands up against someone doesnt mean that you cant still get your tail whooped
I've seen fights with TKD sport fighters (and other arts) start with thier hands up, but most invariably put them down to thier waist. Why? Because they revert to thier training.
I'm sorry, but I don't believe a person can train for years a certain way then when put under the stresser of real life self defense suddenly do something different than what the training has instilled. That is counter the training and it just doesn't work that way.
As far as putting your hands up after you've been hit in the face being common sense...well that's like closing the garage door after the car has been stolen. Why wasn't it closed in the first place?
Yes, a person with thier hands up can get beat. However, a person with thier hands down to thier waist is going to get beat a lot easier. With the hands down to the waist you have less than half your defense/attack ready. Its almost like fighting no handed. That's all good and wonderful if you have no arms, but why on earth would you do it if you have arms?
when the body is spinning having your hands up and genertally out will slow you down..smaller circle the fast it spins..Maybe at this level you just need to be faster..notice alot of the ko's were counters off the first kick
Yeah but you could accomplish the same thing by keeping your hands up stepping in and throwing a cross.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WC_Lun
I've seen fights with TKD sport fighters (and other arts) start with thier hands up, but most invariably put them down to thier waist. Why? Because they revert to thier training.
I'm sorry, but I don't believe a person can train for years a certain way then when put under the stresser of real life self defense suddenly do something different than what the training has instilled. That is counter the training and it just doesn't work that way.
As far as putting your hands up after you've been hit in the face being common sense...well that's like closing the garage door after the car has been stolen. Why wasn't it closed in the first place?
Yes, a person with thier hands up can get beat. However, a person with thier hands down to thier waist is going to get beat a lot easier. With the hands down to the waist you have less than half your defense/attack ready. Its almost like fighting no handed. That's all good and wonderful if you have no arms, but why on earth would you do it if you have arms?
You will fight how you train.
I agree 100%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WC_Lun
I've seen fights with TKD sport fighters (and other arts) start with thier hands up, but most invariably put them down to thier waist. Why? Because they revert to thier training.
I'm sorry, but I don't believe a person can train for years a certain way then when put under the stresser of real life self defense suddenly do something different than what the training has instilled. That is counter the training and it just doesn't work that way.
As far as putting your hands up after you've been hit in the face being common sense...well that's like closing the garage door after the car has been stolen. Why wasn't it closed in the first place?
Yes, a person with thier hands up can get beat. However, a person with thier hands down to thier waist is going to get beat a lot easier. With the hands down to the waist you have less than half your defense/attack ready. Its almost like fighting no handed. That's all good and wonderful if you have no arms, but why on earth would you do it if you have arms?
You will fight how you train.
lol. yall make it sound like its detrimental cause someone has thier hands down at times in a fight.
in some martial arts styles you can assume a casual posture and drop a person who comes at you with thier hands up.
everytime a TKD thread comes up.....theres always some CMA or another striker style that has some nit picking to do.
ive trained in TKD for 16 years an if i get into a street fight i dont revert to putting my hands down. theres many TKD stylists who dont cause they know the difference between
sport competition and a real world situation and its also based on thier quality of training.
your right about you fight how you train....same thing goes for you CMA nut-baskets who mimick the movements of crickettes and monkeys and expect that to work in a street fight
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“You could do this same technique with a knife. Just keep it hidden. Don’t go swinging it around. We’re not yakuza here.”
“Don’t make the other person your opponent. If you do that, you lose your awareness to other people. Taijutsu is not just one on one.”
I never understood the sparring of WTF with the hands at the waist but they dont have to worry about punches.
ITF tae kwon-do is more like kickboxing and the hands are up. i prefer it that way.
i do wtf taekwondo. i will say only stupid retards who want to get knocked out hold their hands at their waist. unless they are trying to set you up. which is what tkd is about setting up your opponent.
Last edited by AWANT2FIGHT; 07-02-2008 at 05:37 PM.
your right about you fight how you train....same thing goes for you CMA nut-baskets who mimick the movements of crickettes and monkeys and expect that to work in a street fight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinobi_Kokujin
lol. yall make it sound like its detrimental cause someone has thier hands down at times in a fight.
in some martial arts styles you can assume a casual posture and drop a person who comes at you with thier hands up.
everytime a TKD thread comes up.....theres always some CMA or another striker style that has some nit picking to do.
ive trained in TKD for 16 years an if i get into a street fight i dont revert to putting my hands down. theres many TKD stylists who dont cause they know the difference between
sport competition and a real world situation and its also based on thier quality of training.
your right about you fight how you train....same thing goes for you CMA nut-baskets who mimick the movements of crickettes and monkeys and expect that to work in a street fight
My comments weren't necesarily about TKD specifically. However, the TKD SPORT fighters are easy to pick on because of the way they train to fight with thier hands down. I think you are really fooling yourself if you think you will fight differently than you train. If you fight with your hands down in your school, you will do the same thing if you get in a real fight.
As far as CMA who mimick animals and expect it to work on the street, if they don't train realistically then you are absolutley right. ANY style or system that trains without realistic expectations will find themselves in trouble in a real fight, no matter how long they have been training. That includes people that think they will be able to start with thier hands down and still fight efficiently.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WC_Lun
My comments weren't necesarily about TKD specifically. However, the TKD SPORT fighters are easy to pick on because of the way they train to fight with thier hands down. I think you are really fooling yourself if you think you will fight differently than you train. If you fight with your hands down in your school, you will do the same thing if you get in a real fight.
As far as CMA who mimick animals and expect it to work on the street, if they don't train realistically then you are absolutley right. ANY style or system that trains without realistic expectations will find themselves in trouble in a real fight, no matter how long they have been training. That includes people that think they will be able to start with thier hands down and still fight efficiently.
im not fooling myself. if im in the dojang an im sparring...personally i dont have my hands down but during certain times in a sparring match
my hands may go down at waist level while im either taunting my opponent or getting ready for a certain technique cause its like a game of chess to me. my hands also go through different positions.
ive always been able to separate dojang point sparring even though its full contact from a street fight. first of all, in a street fight theres no rules.
even then, distance plays a factor a TKD person can have thier hands down, and u come with an attack an they either keep u at bay with a kick...or clock you with a well timed kick, because you thought that they were open because thier hands were down but you werent paying attention to thier legs.
ive been in a fair share of street fights , bar fights, an even H2H situations on military deployment missions.
some people can make that transition. but theres those who cant because of quality of instruction.
some ITF guys like to talk smack about the hands thing too just cause they can punch to the face. thats all fine an good. but some of them are ****ty punchers, or they over-emphasize punching over kicks.
ive sparred some ITF guys and fought one in a real fight when i was in Job Corps and i kicked the crap out of them. ....underestimating the potential of good WTF training.
this was where i also sparred a JKD guy for the first time....an i was intimidated cause back then i thought JKD was deadly an that Bruce Lee was really a fighter an not just an actor/martial artist.
JKD guy got the crap kicked out of him too.
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“You could do this same technique with a knife. Just keep it hidden. Don’t go swinging it around. We’re not yakuza here.”
“Don’t make the other person your opponent. If you do that, you lose your awareness to other people. Taijutsu is not just one on one.”
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If you've trained to fight with your hands up, it will translate to real life fighting. You train to fight with your hands down, it will also translate to real life fighting. You will fight how you train because that is what you have trained your body and your mind to do. Makes sense, huh? You will revert to your training when you are put under the stress of real combat. Wishful thinking won't change that.
As far as Bruce Lee not not being a fighter, acording to people who knew him he was. Niether you or I will really ever know, but judging his skill from the skill of someone who takes JKD is ridiculous.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WC_Lun
If you've trained to fight with your hands up, it will translate to real life fighting. You train to fight with your hands down, it will also translate to real life fighting. You will fight how you train because that is what you have trained your body and your mind to do. Makes sense, huh? You will revert to your training when you are put under the stress of real combat. Wishful thinking won't change that.
As far as Bruce Lee not not being a fighter, acording to people who knew him he was. Niether you or I will really ever know, but judging his skill from the skill of someone who takes JKD is ridiculous.
when ive been put under stress of combat, i didnt put my hands down and assume a stance like i would do in a TKD competition. in TKD, at least where i trained,
you have sport competition training and you have self defense / street combat training.
TKD was also designed to teach fighting methods in a short amount of time to a large population of troops where you have such tenets like perseverance and indomitable spirit playing a factor in driving one to not
falter under the stress of combat
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“You could do this same technique with a knife. Just keep it hidden. Don’t go swinging it around. We’re not yakuza here.”
“Don’t make the other person your opponent. If you do that, you lose your awareness to other people. Taijutsu is not just one on one.”
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