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I'm very fond of UFC history (hence why I babble about it here), so I'd be interested in any recommendations people have for further reading. So far, I mainly draw upon Clyde Gentry's No Holds Barred, and to a lesser degree, Ken Shamrock's Inside the Lion's Den. There's also chunks on the UFC in books like The Gracie Way, and a huge number of newspaper articles if you've got access to something like Factiva.
What I'd most like to get hold of, though, are the Black Belt magazines from the time. I've seen references to letters exchanged in those pages, like the ones between Clay McBride, Art Davie and Bill Wallace shortly after the first event, but not sure where I'd get hold of those issues. Can't imagine many libraries stock a limited interest magazine like that, but you never know.
If people are having trouble finding the older UFC events, you could try FightDVD, though that's only for Region 2. I've always had good service from them.
Finally, try Eddie Goldman's podcast. He occasionally has interviews with people from the early days, like Bob Meyrowitz, Todd Hester and indeed Eddie himself (been around since UFC 2).
Styles: Present: Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu and Gracie Barra BJJ, Past: Combat Hapkido, Karate
Posts: 390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slideyfoot
I'm very fond of UFC history (hence why I babble about it here), so I'd be interested in any recommendations people have for further reading. So far, I mainly draw upon Clyde Gentry's No Holds Barred, and to a lesser degree, Ken Shamrock's Inside the Lion's Den. There's also chunks on the UFC in books like The Gracie Way, and a huge number of newspaper articles if you've got access to something like Factiva.
What I'd most like to get hold of, though, are the Black Belt magazines from the time. I've seen references to letters exchanged in those pages, like the ones between Clay McBride, Art Davie and Bill Wallace shortly after the first event, but not sure where I'd get hold of those issues. Can't imagine many libraries stock a limited interest magazine like that, but you never know.
If people are having trouble finding the older UFC events, you could try FightDVD, though that's only for Region 2. I've always had good service from them.
Finally, try Eddie Goldman's podcast. He occasionally has interviews with people from the early days, like Bob Meyrowitz, Todd Hester and indeed Eddie himself (been around since UFC 2).
man THANKS for that link, i was looking for UFC 9 and 10 in dvd for a long time! +rep.
yeah the beginning was much different, it was a real style v style match up.
but natually fighters cross trained to be able to compete, and know its the only way mma fifgters train, and some to a very high standard.
If you think about it, it was always gonna happen.
I would however love to see tournament show as it was, but ufc prbably won't go that way again.
I was also a fan from early on. As far as a throw back to the older tournament style goes, I don't think they could afford to do that with todays audience. I feel that most of the younger fans and even some of the older ones to prefer to watch the strikers more than the grapplers. In the older days the grapplers where the ones who ruled the ranks. After Gracie you also had Severn and Taktarov. I have seen fights and listened to the fans boo the matchups of two grapplers who tend to stay on the ground. A good example is the superfight in UFC 5 where Gracie and Shamrock are on the ground for about 36 mins and again in UFC 7 Taktarov and Shamrock are the ground for about 33min. Both of these matches ended in a draw. Then there was also the match between Shamrock and Severn at UFC 9 that lasted 30min the only difference is that by this time the UFC had finally added ring side judges to score the fights. UFC 12 also saw the birth of the wieght classes.
I have seen fights and listened to the fans boo the matchups of two grapplers who tend to stay on the ground. A good example is the superfight in UFC 5 where Gracie and Shamrock are on the ground for about 36 mins.
Well yeah, but that was also a dull match, even if you have an appreciation of the ground. It wasn't as bad as the famous Shamrock-Severn dance, or the even worse Severn-Kimo debacle in Pride, but still very uneventful.
If people were booing some of the awesome groundwork in the early Prides, like some of Sakuraba's fights from the first few, that would be a cause for complaint. Although the Japanese audiences are famously quiet anyway, with a generally much higher technical appreciation for combat sports than in the US (certainly in the early days, when the UFC audience was decidedly ignorant of groundwork).
Well yeah, but that was also a dull match, even if you have an appreciation of the ground. It wasn't as bad as the famous Shamrock-Severn dance
Dull as it may have been in my eyes Shamrock won the match. He held as the aggreser for most if not the entire fight. He did also get one good punch through the gaurd of Gracie at the begining of the overtime.
This is very true. No one I know of would enjoy watching two men circle each other and throw a leg kick every 5min or so.
Japanese may be a bit quite and mannered during the matches, that is unless you watch professional boxing where the fans never seem to quite down.
Dull as it may have been in my eyes Shamrock won the match. He held as the aggreser for most if not the entire fight. He did also get one good punch through the gaurd of Gracie at the begining of the overtime.
Two sides to every argument, of course. To quote myself from the long history post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by me
A long, relatively inactive 'superfight' between Royce and eager challenger Ken Shamrock resulted in a draw, though Shamrock felt vindicated by the fact he managed to bloody up Royce's face towards the end of the match. Whereas in their first encounter Royce had quickly used his gi to choke out the big American, this time he was neutralised by Shamrock's extremely cautious strategy.
Inside the Lion's Den claims that the draw "was a moral and strategic victory for Shamrock, who had used power and patience to dominate Gracie," then quotes commentator Bruce Beck: "Royce Gracie is a mess—but Shamrock looks marvellous." It was a sign of things to come, particularly in the early years of the PRIDE Fighting Championship, as apprehensive fighters who came up against the Gracies decided that a draw was good enough, stalling out the match.
Most pertinent to BJJ is the claim that in the discussions over a possible rematch, the Gracies "resisted a time limit of thirty or even forty-five minutes. It takes time to wear down a large opponent like Shamrock, they maintained, ignoring the fact that as the Superfight ground on, it was Gracie, not Shamrock, who was dissolving." Shamrock and Hanner insist that this was just a tactic to avoid having another fight, because "as the Gracies well knew, a fight with no time limit would be an impossibility on television." [74]
In Clyde Gentry's book, he also comments on how Rorion complained about Art Davie calling for the fight to be stood up: Rorion apparently insists Royce never would have taken that big punch had the match been left to continue on the ground (which wouldn't make sense if that punch was through Royce's guard, as you say in your post. I'd have to rewatch my DVD, as unsurprisingly I haven't given that match too many repeat viewings).
I can understand that. The punch may not have been possible without the stand up at the begining of overtime. The punch itself just started the swelling it was the repeating smaller punches and headbutts once back on the ground that got the cut and made the actual swelling worse to the point it was once the match ended.
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