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Do any of you who practice gun SD ever practice gun offense? What I am trying to ask is while you practice disarming the opponent, do you ever practice how to actually use the gun?
The reason I ask is that I had a flashback to my hapkido class where we covered gun defense and a lot of the moves had us grabbing the gun...but we never learned how to actually use a gun, which didnt make too much sense.
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Once you have the gun the person you disarmed will normally run away, making firing of the gun unnescessary. However, having said that, I have trained in firing guns as well as the oh-crap-I'm-gonna-die scenerios of taking them away from people.
Once you have the gun the person you disarmed will normally run away, making firing of the gun unnescessary. However, having said that, I have trained in firing guns as well as the oh-crap-I'm-gonna-die scenerios of taking them away from people.
yea but if are running away carrying the gun you should have an understanding of how guns work so you dont shoot yourself, or if the person goes for a backup gun/knife you should know how to fire
Well, we teach a basic understanding of guns, but we have yet to bring a student down to the range and let them fire off a few shots. In truth, if you are close enough to take a gun away from someone, you probably don't need to know more than what they teach at the Homer Simpson school of gun ownership. "This is the part you point at what you want to die, and this is the part you pull when you want it to die." Beyond that, with safeties, maintenance and what not, is really beyond the scope of most martial arts.
Well, we teach a basic understanding of guns, but we have yet to bring a student down to the range and let them fire off a few shots. In truth, if you are close enough to take a gun away from someone, you probably don't need to know more than what they teach at the Homer Simpson school of gun ownership. "This is the part you point at what you want to die, and this is the part you pull when you want it to die." Beyond that, with safeties, maintenance and what not, is really beyond the scope of most martial arts.
But it shouldnt be beyond the scope of MAs. If you are teaching gun SD it should be included as part of the program. I mean what if they grab the gun and they dont know how or when to rack the slide, or what if it jams. What if they are holding the gun and dont rack the slide and the bad guy just laughs and takes it away as they try to pull the trigger but no bullet comes out because they didnt load it. I think asking someone to disarm someone, and then not teaching them about the weapon is pretty dangerous. They dont even really need to shoot a gun but at least understand how a revolver and pistol operate, what to do if it jams would be the very basics - probably some stuff that could be taught in a class or two but would be really useful.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john55
But it shouldnt be beyond the scope of MAs. If you are teaching gun SD it should be included as part of the program. I mean what if they grab the gun and they dont know how or when to rack the slide, or what if it jams. What if they are holding the gun and dont rack the slide and the bad guy just laughs and takes it away as they try to pull the trigger but no bullet comes out because they didnt load it. I think asking someone to disarm someone, and then not teaching them about the weapon is pretty dangerous. They dont even really need to shoot a gun but at least understand how a revolver and pistol operate, what to do if it jams would be the very basics - probably some stuff that could be taught in a class or two but would be really useful.
This assumes the desire to pull the trigger and shoot someone. Personally, I think that's not worth the trouble it would cause. If you have control of the weapon, a person depending on that weapon for intimidation is not going to put up more fight. Yes, it is a good idea to now how a gun works, but I think this is just getting into the scope of what do you want to spend your time learning.
I teach gun disarms, but.....I instruct ALL the adults who I teach them to, to go to a gun range, and take a gun course to learn a little bit about firearms in general. Even though I was in the military, I don't feel that I am qualified to teach someone how to use a gun. If I'm not qualified to teach them to use a gun, then I won't do it. I think everyone should know how to take a gun away form a person if that person is close enough to disarm. Most of the time, the person wielding the firearm is using it for confidence, and when they loose it, they loose their confidence.
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Gambatte, one thing on your post I would like to commend you on. That is sayng if you aren't qualified to train someone you won't. Regardless of what that training involves, I wish more people used that thought process. Be a lot less McDojos around.
But it shouldnt be beyond the scope of MAs. If you are teaching gun SD it should be included as part of the program. I mean what if they grab the gun and they dont know how or when to rack the slide, or what if it jams. What if they are holding the gun and dont rack the slide and the bad guy just laughs and takes it away as they try to pull the trigger but no bullet comes out because they didnt load it. I think asking someone to disarm someone, and then not teaching them about the weapon is pretty dangerous. They dont even really need to shoot a gun but at least understand how a revolver and pistol operate, what to do if it jams would be the very basics - probably some stuff that could be taught in a class or two but would be really useful.
Ok, those very basics (rack, tap, bang) which can be covered in just a few minutes is good, but I am not about to bring anything even remotely similar to a loaded gun into my Do Jang to have my students practice on it. Likewise, I won't require them to be expert marksmen.
Ok, those very basics (rack, tap, bang) which can be covered in just a few minutes is good, but I am not about to bring anything even remotely similar to a loaded gun into my Do Jang to have my students practice on it. Likewise, I won't require them to be expert marksmen.
Agreed, I wasnt really saying they need to go to the range (although that would be a good idea)...but just the basics of how a pistol works and the mechanics of it are pretty useful to know.
Agreed, I wasnt really saying they need to go to the range (although that would be a good idea)...but just the basics of how a pistol works and the mechanics of it are pretty useful to know.
It would be good for them. If I didn't work with kids, I may even encourage it. Then again, it has been years since I have gone to a range, even longer if you don't count the archery range. Maybe I should go again.
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IN Krav Maga training we had this stressed to us. Knowing not only how to disarm but understanding how a gun works, so we knew how to use it if we needed to but also the more you know, the less you fear. Some people have a terrible phobia of firearms. In haganah training it was much the same. I was fortunate because I have shot a variety of guns and had been a gun collector for years so it wasn't an issue for me.
The best gun defense you can ever have is give them your wallet. In order for gun SD to even come in to play you would need a person that was really going to kill you and at point blank range. Still it's not that great of an idea. The guy I studied wing chun with always use to say you can't bong sao bullets.
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I agree w/ Triangle here. I've had guns pulled on me, and I've been shot at. The best thing is asess the situation. If the person is just after your wallet, give it to em. But if they're after you or your family, then wait for an oportun moment and act. As I tell my students, if you decide to act and attempt a disarm, you have to fight as if your life depends on it....Because IT DOES! I also tell them that even if they get shot, they must continue the fight because being shot doesn't equal being dead. There are many many people who have been shot, and lived to tell about it.
Jim Wagner recomends just giving them the wallet also. However, he says that if they're too far away, to toss the wallet away from them so they have to look away to get it. When they do, run for cover in a circular pattern. His thoughts, if you zig-zag, then you cross their path 2x versus just being a moving target which is moving away. I dunno which way is best, but when I was shot at, I always just ran. Usually wasn't far to a corner of a building. It seemed they never came close....But I'll have to meet the man upstairs to find out how close it was. LOL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRIANGLEFROMGAURD
The best gun defense you can ever have is give them your wallet. In order for gun SD to even come in to play you would need a person that was really going to kill you and at point blank range. Still it's not that great of an idea. The guy I studied wing chun with always use to say you can't bong sao bullets.
I suppose there is no way to Tan Sau or Lop Sau bullets either, huh?
I agree the best defense is just give them your wallet/car keys, whatever. Unless you really believe the person with the gun is going to squeeze that trigger anyway, there is no reason to put yourself at more risk over something that can be replaced.
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